It is pointless to petition the state/oligarchs or demand they decide anything in your favor. It won't happen as long as they're able to force the masses into submission.
If your movement isn't killing people and breaking things, causing absolute large-scale chaos and destruction, ready willing and able to take on and/or defeat military forces, then it will eventually fail. You have to match or surpass state violence in order to be effective. Your movement has to basically act as an invading military force.
Maybe the occupy movement should have burned down the entirety of Wall St and killed as many leaders in NYC and DC as possible.
My reasoning is that the state always ultimately answers everything with force as a matter of systemic order. Whatever the situation angle or strategy, the state forces it's violent terms upon anything within it's grasp or in it's way. Thus any effective movement will inevitably have to address said force.
Even if the whole population agreed on a peaceful color revolution and completely boycotted the state/oligarchs, if the people absolutely refused to vote pay taxes or play along with state edicts, it would still come down to force.
What I noticed most about Occupy WS, was that it pure anarchy. You guys took the "No Authority" to the extreme. In Mass movements, you have to have people in charge. In big camps, you have to have PR people, Security people, Cooks, cleaners, etc. It's like a small army. You guys didn't have any organization that I could see.
Your grievances were all over the place and there was no coherent message.
On the plus side, I don't remember seeing any looting, rioting, rapes, or shootings. So, there's that.
Occupy was very obviously infiltrated and taken over to become Antifa. Every opposition ends up controlled. Another poster has connected the demise of Occupy with the rise in liberal rhetoric in the nationwide newspapers in an almost instant response. Occupy was originally called 99%, that certainly got attention.
I attended Occupy encampments in St Louis, Kansas City, Springfield Missouri, Missoula Montana, Knoxville Tennessee, Lawrence Kansas, and a few other places. My favourite was in Kansas City where we camped across the street from the Kansas City Feral Reserveless Scheme building. We also marched on the IRS building.
In my view it was the 2012 election that killed the Occupy. Our camp was run off by extreme police measures about the time of the primaries. We tried to keep it going at a new location but the rot set in.
Thanks Crow, we participated briefly in Occupy Melbourne but were soon put off by similar things as you witnessed in Ottawa. Also, we are country folk and what we found there was too much hubris not enough humus.
Given the problem of globalisation is the concentration of power and money, we have focused over the years on the distribution of materials and relationships needed for life making that refuse to feed or come from the machine.
Many of us have been crafting/ reclaiming radical non-monetary, community-sufficient, neopeasant-subsistence economies, using permaculture principles as our framework.
Coupled with this are the mens, women’s and children’s deep listening circles we have all been crafting in our (unintentional) community, where each participant speaks without being interrupted, given advice to, or responded to in any way. Responses can come later if requested. These circles form a social compost, which builds trust, a thing sorely lacking at Occupy, because as you too observed, many people were meeting for the first time..
We also see the limits of consensus, however deep listening - cultivating the capacity to listen to a brother or sister with openness and without judgment - enables tremendous freedom and grows collective trust. Often, after deep listening, if a group decision needs to be made, the growing of trust through the circle degrows ego, which makes it easier to arrive at a decision.
In other words the sacred comes before the political to radically reduce reductive or domineering behaviour. Little gripes that may have existed before a circle are no longer present because we have ceased to remain as fragments, and not at the expense of our individuality
Radical non-participation in the global pool of money, and radical love for community others and the land that feeds us may not seem powerful to those who believe we have to use our time to smash our heads against the walls of power, but imagine the covert and subversive redistribution of power to peoples’ lives if we returned our senses back to a local, bioregional scale and withdrew from the machine poisons (industrial chemicals, food and medicine) that are part fuelling global insanity.
The coming bankrupted governments will only have resources to control citizens (people of the civis) in the city. The services to regional areas will probably diminish and so too institutional fascism outside the centres, the ‘smart’ cities. This will bring huge opportunities.
Imagine relocalisation from a billion cultural approaches, from communities of three households up to 300, all across the world, reperforming earth-honouring lifeways that leave fear, desire and division behind to radically unshackle lives.
We also recommend Krishnamurti’s ‘Beyond Violence’ (1974). We regard it as a seminal anarchist text for the present.
It is pointless to petition the state/oligarchs or demand they decide anything in your favor. It won't happen as long as they're able to force the masses into submission.
If your movement isn't killing people and breaking things, causing absolute large-scale chaos and destruction, ready willing and able to take on and/or defeat military forces, then it will eventually fail. You have to match or surpass state violence in order to be effective. Your movement has to basically act as an invading military force.
Maybe the occupy movement should have burned down the entirety of Wall St and killed as many leaders in NYC and DC as possible.
Yeah, well people in Canada and the U.S. definitely aren't prepared to do that. If that's what's necessary, I guess we'll get rolled over.
I understand where you're coming from but I don't see this that way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_continuity_of_operations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84
My reasoning is that the state always ultimately answers everything with force as a matter of systemic order. Whatever the situation angle or strategy, the state forces it's violent terms upon anything within it's grasp or in it's way. Thus any effective movement will inevitably have to address said force.
Even if the whole population agreed on a peaceful color revolution and completely boycotted the state/oligarchs, if the people absolutely refused to vote pay taxes or play along with state edicts, it would still come down to force.
The state knows no other way. It's evil.
NEVERMORE UNA AUTOPSIS FELICES
FELICES AUTOPSIA DEL MOVIMIENTOO
FELICES Y GRACIAS UNA AUTOPSIA
What I noticed most about Occupy WS, was that it pure anarchy. You guys took the "No Authority" to the extreme. In Mass movements, you have to have people in charge. In big camps, you have to have PR people, Security people, Cooks, cleaners, etc. It's like a small army. You guys didn't have any organization that I could see.
Your grievances were all over the place and there was no coherent message.
On the plus side, I don't remember seeing any looting, rioting, rapes, or shootings. So, there's that.
Occupy was very obviously infiltrated and taken over to become Antifa. Every opposition ends up controlled. Another poster has connected the demise of Occupy with the rise in liberal rhetoric in the nationwide newspapers in an almost instant response. Occupy was originally called 99%, that certainly got attention.
Interesting... do you a link to that post?
https://substack.com/@jeromearmstrong/note/c-66379638?r=15h968&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
I attended Occupy encampments in St Louis, Kansas City, Springfield Missouri, Missoula Montana, Knoxville Tennessee, Lawrence Kansas, and a few other places. My favourite was in Kansas City where we camped across the street from the Kansas City Feral Reserveless Scheme building. We also marched on the IRS building.
In my view it was the 2012 election that killed the Occupy. Our camp was run off by extreme police measures about the time of the primaries. We tried to keep it going at a new location but the rot set in.
Thanks Crow, we participated briefly in Occupy Melbourne but were soon put off by similar things as you witnessed in Ottawa. Also, we are country folk and what we found there was too much hubris not enough humus.
Given the problem of globalisation is the concentration of power and money, we have focused over the years on the distribution of materials and relationships needed for life making that refuse to feed or come from the machine.
Many of us have been crafting/ reclaiming radical non-monetary, community-sufficient, neopeasant-subsistence economies, using permaculture principles as our framework.
Coupled with this are the mens, women’s and children’s deep listening circles we have all been crafting in our (unintentional) community, where each participant speaks without being interrupted, given advice to, or responded to in any way. Responses can come later if requested. These circles form a social compost, which builds trust, a thing sorely lacking at Occupy, because as you too observed, many people were meeting for the first time..
We also see the limits of consensus, however deep listening - cultivating the capacity to listen to a brother or sister with openness and without judgment - enables tremendous freedom and grows collective trust. Often, after deep listening, if a group decision needs to be made, the growing of trust through the circle degrows ego, which makes it easier to arrive at a decision.
In other words the sacred comes before the political to radically reduce reductive or domineering behaviour. Little gripes that may have existed before a circle are no longer present because we have ceased to remain as fragments, and not at the expense of our individuality
Radical non-participation in the global pool of money, and radical love for community others and the land that feeds us may not seem powerful to those who believe we have to use our time to smash our heads against the walls of power, but imagine the covert and subversive redistribution of power to peoples’ lives if we returned our senses back to a local, bioregional scale and withdrew from the machine poisons (industrial chemicals, food and medicine) that are part fuelling global insanity.
The coming bankrupted governments will only have resources to control citizens (people of the civis) in the city. The services to regional areas will probably diminish and so too institutional fascism outside the centres, the ‘smart’ cities. This will bring huge opportunities.
Imagine relocalisation from a billion cultural approaches, from communities of three households up to 300, all across the world, reperforming earth-honouring lifeways that leave fear, desire and division behind to radically unshackle lives.
We also recommend Krishnamurti’s ‘Beyond Violence’ (1974). We regard it as a seminal anarchist text for the present.
Wow! What a terrific comment. I'm making a mental note to come back to this.
Yes! The end of Wall St Banking systems will push a new reality and ecology on reciprocation!
We WILL need to have reserves to get us through this much needed movement!